Wednesday, June 25, 2003

What do you call a person who does Victim Behavior? abusee?

What do I call this, Victim Mentality?

Why is it if you go to web forums where you think there might be people who should be familiar with
victim behavior, and you say "you're doing this"... why would they get angry at the 'accusation'??

Why is it that statement would be interpreted as an accusation?

possible answer(s)?

well, I didn't have rapport going when I started talking
and I did come to with an agenda

But there is more to this... maybe people who are doing victim behavior are...

how shall I say it?

for some reason they've linked a negative connotation to
or associated a negative value to
Victim Behavior

it isn't intrinsically 'bad'

there is no shame in it. it just is.

What's with the automatic assumption of "so you're saying I'm to blame!!??"

I never said squat about whose to blame...I never implied blame...
I don't even think blame is a useful topic (where victim behavior is concerned)

more later

Tuesday, June 24, 2003

example of self destructive sex addiction self talk- useful read

I used to do this. I used to hide under an alias and go and check on
my DOC (Drug of Choice---a man I had a three year relationship with,
that started on-line). I would pull up a name and go into chat as a
complete stranger and watch him. Sometimes talk to him, sometimes
not. The end results were that no matter what...I left feeling worse
than before.

If he wasn't there, I was worried (and mad)...where is he? Is he with
another woman? Is he thinking of me? Have I been forgotten?

If he was there...I was mad. WHY is he here? If I'm not in his life,
what is he doing here? Is he looking for another woman?

If i didn't speak to him, but watched him speak to others...I was mad.
How can he go about his life without me? Shouldn't he be in so much
grief that I am gone?

If I DID speak to him...I was mad. How DARE he speak with (and
**GASP** FLIRT with..yeah I was setting him up) another woman! He IS
over me and I have been replaced! (even if it was me temporarily
replacing myself)

It was insanity. Did I learn anything from it? Yeah, I learned it
hurt. But I did it again and again.

Going forward in my life...I used to do the same darn thing with
driving past the house of my soon to be ex and his girlfriend. If I
saw his car, I was furious. If I DIDN'T see his car, I was STILL
angry at the mere thought that they live there. If i saw them,
whoa....bad news...if I didn't see them, I STILL was seething thinking
of them together.

Looking...or having a friend insanity. It's not facing
reality. Your reality isn't there anymore. It's ahead of you (not
behind). You made mistakes back there, yes...but you are moving
forward. Learning, through recovery, what healthy relationships ARE.

Now...all this said. MAN! I know how tough this is to NOT look. You
are SURE that this time will be the golden time. You'll learn the
answers, they'll come back with open arms...blah blah blah.

There are times I am up within the suburb they live in. Turn left, I
pass their house. Go straight, I go home. It's the HARDEST choice to
make. But I've made the right move the last 4 or 5 times. I am
working NOW on not going that way at ALL(finding the same stores, etc.
in different directions/ telling myself that I really don't have the
hour of my life to waste going up to see-or not see- things that will
have me furious for a few MORE hours).

And on-line...sure I know I could go look for him again. My addict is
currently shouting..."yeah, like NOW! Go find him NOW!" But I have
come to understand that whatever I find will be bad for me. Maybe not
for that moment of "there he is!" but for the weeks that follow (of
beating myself up, checking e-mails, crying and wishing for him again,
and on, and on, and on...)

I want to understand healthy relationships....but that is not a
healthy way to do it.

After a KNOW what it is that you did wrong (without going
back to look)...because you can think clearly- both forwards and back.

Stay strong. Keep away. It's in the past--and nothing back there will
help your future. NOTHING!

reprinted with permission off of a sex addiction recovery mailing list
Non sex addicts will be amazed at the thought process

Sex addicts will read this and say to themselves: this is what I DO!!
you mean I'm not the only one??

more later

Depression and the West's sad state of medicine

Now that I have 3 blogs I'm constantly wondering what stuff from which one should
be on which blog.

This topic I wrote about on

So how would Western medicine look at depression? As a chemical imbalance of the brain, of course. There are not enough of certain neurotransmitters, including seratonin. Following the logic, the solution would be to do something that will increase the amount of seratonin, which is what antidepressant drugs like Prozac or Zoloft do.

But what if we look at depression, and the associated brain chemistry imbalance, as a symptom of something else going on with the person? Is taking a drug that tries to balance the chemistry really helping in the long run? My answer is a qualified no!

more later

Hey, I'm starting to get good press... sort of

snipped from

someone speaking about what they think of!

I have found the to be very right on and gives you
many tools to work with. The depression can be overwhelming yet it is
very real and force yourself to get out there and try some of the
tips. They do help.
We are here and rooting for you.


Now that made me feel good!

Post that I originally responded to here

Post that I did reply to (where I offered additional strategies)

Post where some kind person said nice things about my site:)

although I'm not clear on what she meant by her comment on *Dr.s* ??

more later

Monday, June 23, 2003

Going to have to completely redesign's front page

In light of what I learned by posting to's message board.

I learned a lot!

I came at the problem of how to build a site on the topic of Victim Behavior from the
perspective of the therapist... the people I'm trying to reach are getting offended by
what they see as a label???

the linking of the neutral statment of 'your doing victim behavior' with stuff that just isn't
there, it's stuff they're adding (the blame stuff) all by themselves

... no where is saying to someone that they're doing victim behavior
is also saying that they are to blame for x, y or z happening to them.

I'm going to have to come at this from the victim doer's perspective...

they sure don't see that anything is their fault, they seem to be cauught up in the
whole *fault* thing...

why did they do that?

taking responsibility has zero to do with fault

Why is it that people with bad boundaries don't like people with good boundaries?

Some people want to stay a victim...the are getting to play poor me, getting lots of never occurs to them that getting sympathy is a bad thing

Not all people that do victim behavior are aware that they're doing it

Some people do in fact like the sympathy, but just because you point out that
"you're doing victim behavior" doesn't automatically follow that they also fall in the
catagory of people who will just never accept the sympathy is pity...

more later

Sunday, June 22, 2003

Telling someone to 'take responsibility' is not blaming!!!

I've been warned by the good people on the message board to:
Please note, members have protested posts that label people as victims and posts that advertise other sites.

Our web editor has removed these posts from the bulletin board and requests that you refrain from such posting.

I get the second part... they're selling books, some of them were written by the owners of the site
(I think, I've not been there very long), my sig file is advertising my site.

What I don't get is semantics, or a problem with our use of semantics.

The statement- "you're doing victim behavior" does not imply:
1) that you should shut the f*** up, stop whining
2) that you are to blame (for anything)

The term 'blame' is found nowhere in the statement "you're doing victim behavior"

the only person who includes blame is the person who is taking it that way.

Why would they do that?

Semantics and/ or Linguistics are powerful

Language is hypnotic

don't believe me?

look at these two phrases(from recent world events)

COMbat stress

comBAT stress

two phrases that conjure up two completely different images

saying that one is doing victim behavior does not imply that
they're to blame!

the person taking on the blame is doing that to themselves

the term victim behavior is null

it contains zero blame, it's a neutral statement

no one told you to link blame with victim behavior

you did that all by yourself


look at what Becky posted (she came to my rescue on message board)

Becky quoted me below
If you're not healthy, you will stay a victim

actually if you know, or come to learn that
the old status quo is not healthy, one could
infer that you were doing victim behavior.

There is no shame in that, you can assert new
boundaries and end your victimization.>>>>
Becky's response
It took a very long time before I understood this.Once I did I never felt so free in my life! Leaving isn't easy; I'm having tough times financially and getting the divorce over with. But once I realized that I was in charge of how I was treated--NOT HIM--I began to feel some power over my own life, for the first time in my life.

I think sometimes people think taking responsibility is the same as taking blame. it's not. We are never to blame for being abused. However, if we choose to live with it we have to take responsibility for that decision. In other words, accept that you are there and plan for how to cope, and stop expecting anything to be different. Stop being surprised and disappointed that nothing about the VA'er changes.

Not everyone can get away; not everyone can walk out the door immediately. Even those who choose to stay can take their power back and thus no longer be a "victim." They can detach, live as separate a life as possible and put their own welfare above all. It's hard to do this while still living with an abuser, but some manage to do it. I toyed with this idea and decided that i am not made to live that way.

When someone new posts and starts right out with very strongly stated opinions, it can be construed as preaching. It can also raise suspiscions and resentment. What helps,I've found is everyone take a step back and not react immediately.

We are all at different stages and that's what makes for an interesting and helpful board imo. I think it helps to remember that some things said here apply to our unique situations and where we are *at* and others don't. I like the philosophy of taking what works for me and leaving the rest.



If you read the entire thread, you'll see that I posted to this list with an agenda.

my first mistake

I failed to do what I knew I should have done- I should have lurked (read a lot of
what is posted to this board, to get a feel for what kind of place it is)

I came out with a strongly worded opinion

I also made some mistakes in stating my opinion


I learned quite a bit from my mistakes!!!

It never occured to me that people who do vicitim behavior would get insulted by the
assertion that they're doing that.

why do they link 'blame' with taking responsibility???

you can see that I got called a troll, and some of the members of
protested that I should make such statements.

I added a line to explain this on the front page of

This reminds me of why my Mom is quitting being a counselor:

she is tired of having the same kinds of people come to her (and pay a lot) for
relationship advice...

...they all do victim behavior and they refuse to quit doing it

Mom told people "If you think she's a whore, then leave her"
and the woman said something to the effect of: "he won't do what I want him to do"

Mom says that all relationship problems (at least the ones she has a decade of
clinical experience with as a counselor) are this:

one person wants the other to do what they want them to do

that other person won't

and you want to keep on trying

it doesn't matter what any one tells you to do, you'll still keep on
trying to change the person

"she's been nagging him to come home after work...she's been
doing it for 16 yrs...and hasn't caught on yet that it doesn't work"
he won't come home because she nags him

which came first, the chicken or the egg??

more later

A short bio on me from an interesting message board thread

From an interesting exchange I recently had by posting to forum

I really, really learned something extremely useful from the above exchanges on

It hadn't occured to me that a person who is in the clutches of Victim Behavior would see the information
provided on and think that they were BEING ABUSED????

Especially this response to my posting (which stirred up much controversy, and I got called a troll ??)

"I think sometimes people think taking responsibility is the same as taking blame. it's not.

We are never to blame for being abused.

However, if we choose to live with it we have to take responsibility for that decision.

In other words, accept that you are there and plan for how to cope, and stop expecting anything to be different.

Stop being surprised and disappointed that nothing about the VA'er changes"

(a VA'er is a verbal abuser)

She said it better than I did, Thanks Becky!

more later