Secular sobriety vs God and the 12 steps- debate on AStarttoRecovery mailing list

This is what I posted to the A Start to Recovery mailing list hosted on yahoogroups

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My current incarnation of this debate is:

I'm made in the image of God, so I was endowed with Christ like qualities.

This includes what John Bradshaw says in his "Right Brain Healing- The Jesus Nature" about Christ being precognitive, and powers of telekinesis

But I'm humble before my creator.

so in my world it's God (the creator) and I'm a sort of 'god' lowercase.

a junior partner so to speak.

I do have a large degree of control over what happens to me, and total
control over what choices I make.

Additionallly, I have total control over my reaction to what happens to me.

Human beings are the only animals who get to choose how they react to X, Y or Z stimuli.

It's not the snake bite that kills you, it's the venom

We get to choose whether or not X, Y or Z is venomous to us.

I also believe in (for lack of a proper name) manifesting, I manifest my
experience (which is a form of mind over matter, and a spiritual kind of thing)

At the very least, I manifest how I react to stimulus X, Y or Z.

However, my will is suspect compared to the creators will.

He knows better than I.

It would serve me well to stay attuned to what his will is.

So how does someone know what God's will is?

IF you don't have the antenna up, you'll never be able to receive
his transmission, or even be aware if there was a transmission.

I heard an AA saying that applies:
"God gave us one mouth and two ears for a reason"

Frequently acoa's (adult children of alcoholics) are grandiose.

http://victimbehavior.com/codependency/index.html

http://software4yourmind.com/victimcharacteristics/index.html

It is, in my mind, not appropriate to bolster your self esteem, by yourself.

having your antenna up, to receive God's will is more than appropriate
with this in mind.

ACOA's in need of recovery are 'King Baby'

they are grandiose

Additonaly, I belive that all of our culture's agnostic belief system stems from
the shift the West took 400 yrs ago with Issac Newton. I say this based on
the author Morris Berman-
http://software4yourmind.com/change.html#enchantedworld



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I edited this email (improved on it) for this weblog entry

sex addicts FAQ, a work in progress, from the sex addicts recovery list

I've found that addictions seem to be universal, and the good people in recovery from sex addiction seem
to have a *handle* on addiction.

The reason I think this is because no one wants to stop having sex, they
want to stop the addiction part of it...and to do that, requires (IMHO) that you really understand
addiction

(as opposed to the alcoholics or other substance abusers who mistakenly believe that ending the
substance abuse, ends the problem- the substance is really just the symptom, a symptom of immaturity)

The following *thread* is from this mailing list A Start to Recovery hosted on yahoogroups

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While I feel like I've become a part of this group, I still have a lot
of questions that I haven't asked. I'll also include some of the
things I think I've deduced correctly. Perhaps we should have a FAQ
in the files section. I'd be happy to compile one and upload it.

General Questions:
What's the difference between SA, SAA, SLAA, COSA, what else is there?

Abbreviations:
f2f = Face to Face meeting, rather than online
A/O = Acting Out
DOC = ?

Literature:
Is there a seperate big book for SAA/SLAA from the AA big book? I
know in my Sexual Anorexia f2f, they don't even use a big book, just
something they got at a bookstore.

That's all that comes to mind for the moment. I should have been
keeping a list somewhere.

==========

DOC = "Drug Of Choice" (porn, masturbation, alcohol, other people, etc.

I've been to SLAA and SA (and AA) and each has a separate "big book"--all based on the Twelve Steps, but with different slants (as someone more qualified than I will be certain to explain!)

MB = masturbation
SO = significant other

==========

Questions I've Been Afraid To Ask


I see that Ed has started to answer your questions...maybe I can help
too.

BTW.....KEEP ASKING!! i know when I was new here I felt that the
group was going CRAZY with my questions...but on the contrary, they
were always very helpful...and only THOUGHT, "McKenna, shut up a
while." :P


About a FAQ site...I've been working on that for a while on my
own...with computer guidance from my kids (do ya believe it...MAN,
kids are smart these days). But I'm not finished yet. :( sorry to
say.

> General Questions:
> What's the difference between SA, SAA, SLAA, COSA, what else is
there?>


Ok, I'll let you know what *I* have learned over the years. Mind
you, these are my "learned" ideas and opinions. If others feel they
would like to add their opinions...PLEASE do so.

SA- Sexaholics Anonymous

The strictest of the "sex" recovery groups. Uses the 12 steps.
Doesn't allow much if any masturbation or any acting out.
Relations only allowed in a committed marriage or relationship
(like REALLY committed!). Because of this strictness, SOME find
it unworkable. I have attended a SA meeting or two and have
never seen another woman there. My presense at these meetings
made the men at the meetings VERY uncomfortable. I felt un-
comfortable too. Not because I felt I didn't belong, but because
I felt that my being there was too triggering for the men.

SAA- Sex Addicts Anonymous

Another 12 step organization. Like SA they too work with following
the program, meetings involving sharing talks and encouragement
from the fellowship. They too promote the use of sponsors to
aid your recovery efforts. They talk about Acting out in terms of
a diagram with a series of rings. The inner circle is the DEFINITE
acting out behaviors. The next largest ring (circle) surrounding
it- the middle circle- includes situations, actions, items, that
are slippery in nature..and MAY possibly push you into acting out.
The outer circle includes SAFE activities. You judge what each
situation is for you and act accordingly.

SLAA- Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous

I belong to this group, because it's not JUST sex and sexual
activities that I am addicted to. My addiction also revolves
around emotions, connecting with people, being addicted to certain
persons, and relationships with them that are inwardly
destructive. This is also a 12 step group...and much of what was
written about SAA also applies here, though the circles aren't
really refered to in that way. It's more considered slippery
sitatutions, persons, relationships, etc.

COSA- Co-dependents of Sex Addicts

This is a group...like Alanon...that deals with the significant
others of Sex Addicts. They are also a 12 step group. They deal
with the co-dependence issues of living and loving the recovering
and currently acting-out addict.

All of these organizations have websites of their own. I would
suggest you look further into each there and form your own opinions
of which group would help you the most. Their links (internet
addresses can be found in the links section of this group).



> Abbreviations:
> f2f = Face to Face meeting, rather than online
> A/O = Acting Out
> DOC = ?
>

Yes, Ed, DOC stands for Drug Of Choice.

*MY* main DOC was a man from Canada that I met through an adult
Intimate Question and Answer Room. We had a three year on-line
relationship,meeting a few times in person. Other addictions (though
not my MAIN DOC would be cyber and phone sex, fantasizing, porn, and
a MASSIVE love addiction that results in MAJOR people pleasing
efforts).


> Literature:
> Is there a seperate big book for SAA/SLAA from the AA big book?

SLAA has a "big Book". It's called Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous.
I highly recommend it. The cost is $14.50 and you can get it on line
at the SLAA site. Hopefully this link will turn up.

http://ssl.adgrafix.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?
slaafwsSTORE:home

If not....check out the on-line store at the SLAA home site.

There are MANY good books out there. Should you ever be looking for
a suggestion...PLEASE ask. It would be unlikely that we couldn't
guide you directly to something that would help you.

> That's all that comes to mind for the moment. I should have been
> keeping a list somewhere.

DO keep a list!!! In the Addiction and Recovery Game...Knowledge is
Power...and in this case...knowledge could ALSO be a matter of life
or death.

From http://yahoogroups.com/group/astarttorecovery/

From the sex addict/ love addict recovery mailing list I belong to

being a love addict STINKS!

the self doubt

the setting yourself up for disappointment

the roller-coaster of emotions

the falling for too many, too fast, too often

I AM YOUR DISEASE (reprint--it's been awhile, but this is a good one)

Hello...

Just in case you forgot me...I am your disease. I hate meetings, I
hate higher powers. I hate anyone who has and works a program. To
all who come in contact with me: I wish you suffering and I wish you
death.

Allow me to tell you about myself. I am the disease of addiction. I am
cunning, baffling, and powerful...I have killed millions; I have
ruined the lives of millions more...and I am pleased.

I love to catch you by surprise. I love pretending that I am your
friend and lover. I have given you comfort, haven't I? Wasn't I
there when you were lonely? When you wanted to die, didn't you call
on me, and didn't I answer?

I was there. I love to make you hurt; I love to make you cry. Better
yet, I love to make you so numb that you can neither hurt nor cry. I
love to help you give up and feel hopeless. When you can't feel
anything at all, that is my true gratification. And all that I ask
from you is long term suffering and lonely despair.

I've been there for you always. When things were going right in your
life, you invited me in. You said you didn't deserve these good
things, and I was the only one who agreed with you. Together, we were
able to destroy everything good in your life.

When things went wrong, I was there to agree with you about how
unfair life is and how blameless you are for anything that happens to
you. I was the only one who would crawl down into the slimy
paralysis of self-pity and wallow around with you there.

People don't take me seriously, and while this wounds my pride, I
don't really mind because it so strongly serves my purpose. People
take strokes serously; heart attacks...diabetes...AIDS, these they
take serously. Fools. Without my help, those illnesses would not even
be possible for many people.

I am such a hated disease, and yet I do not come uninvited.
You choose whether or not to have me active in your life. Doesn't
that prove how powerful and cunning I am? So many choose me, over
reality and hope--even while they say they hate me.

But more than you hate me, I hate all of you who have embraced
recovery. Your refusal to invite me in...your program...your
meetings...your higher power. All of these things weaken and disgust
me, and I can't function in the manner I am accustomed to. Now, I
must lie here quietly, waiting.

Oh, you don't see me much anymore, but I am here...and I have all the
time in the world to wait for you. When you only exist, I may live.
When you live, I may only exist. But I am here... And until we meet
again -if we meet again- I wish you misery and death, just as I
always have done and always will do...

Most Sincerely,

Your disease



What are boundaries?